Composites Central

Go Back   Composites Central > General Composites Discussions > Showcase

Reply
Old 06-15-2013, 02:25 PM   #21
tom21

Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: florida
Posts: 14
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts



Default

awesome writeup! it is very difficult to remember to stop and take pics while in the throws or working with glass.

your learning curve is very similar to mine. I had been making a few parts and then wanted to make a one of a kind part. my first mold was made from cheap clay and took forever. oh sure one side can be hammered out relatively fast but making an exact opposite is where all the work is.

I soon switched to foam and found the shaping to be so much faster using a saw and then air tools to get it down faster. then I use bondo or body filler to coat and then work that. it has its issues as you almost always get a thin spot in the filler and have to gouge it out and add more filler. but in the end you can sand it down smooth(enough) or go all out and primer and wetsand that. the better the plug the better the mold and part.

one thing I wanted to mention that might help you or others is that all those pinholes could have been avoided by using a gelcoat before your glass. I know this is a budget build so with that said maybe even brushing out some resin and letting that setup a bit, might be a few layers even. would have made a complete skin and you could skip the air that you get with the chop. you may even need to add some talc or flour even to thicken it up so it wont run. also if you have trouble seeing what is covered you can add some paint to it to color it.

Looking forward to seeing the finished product. pretty cool to build it yourself and have a unique bike when its done.
tom21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2013, 02:57 AM   #22
mugget

Composites Expert
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Posts: 226
Thanks: 115
Thanked 30 Times in 27 Posts



Default

Cheers tom21. Yeah learning this way has it's ups and downs, but you can't just sit back reading books - eventually you just gotta get in and do it! I just try to remember to take a photo at each major step - usually not hard for me to remember because each of those points is like a milestone for me. Haha.

Quote:
it has its issues as you almost always get a thin spot in the filler and have to gouge it out and add more filler.


That is exactly what I discovered making the change to the front fender! But no biggie, easy fix. Sure is better than messing around with clay. I think the only place I would use clay again is if I either worked it more to get a really good, smooth shape (and then coated it with PVC or something so it didn't stick to the glass and stop it from fully curing) or if I was doing a very large part (no point in using lots of foam when you can just build up the shape with bricks & clay).

Good tip on avoiding the pinholes. I actually have some old gelcoat here, should have used that probably... but then I wasn't sure if you can use body filler on top of that? Since I had planned to modify the panels. Part of the problem is that I rushed those parts, they're not really so much pinholes as places where I didn't wet out the glass properly.

Well I made some progress since the last post, so here it is:

First up the good news, the remodelled fender plug is all complete!


Fender Plug - Complete by mugget, on Flickr

I have a couple of parts that may need small areas filled once the primer is blocked down, but better to do it that way rather than trying to put filler on top of filler... I seem to just keep using more and more filler and sanding more away if I do that.

I got my LED lights up in the spray booth type area I made, much better for painting in. So I sprayed the basecoat and clear last weekend while it was raining! No problems! I think the problems only come when you have a situation that can cause condensation, like if it was summer with high humidity. But since it's winter, I didn't think that condensation could form by blowing cold air onto a cold job, and it didn't.

I was really happy with how I managed to spray the base, no runs, would have just preferred to spray one more coat but I ran out of paint by the time I'd done all the gun setup - all that setup is worth it though!

The clear... well that's another story. And that's the most important bit. Basically it was starting to get dark (even though I added light to the spray area, it's not so much that I can work in dark) so I was rushing a bit, and didn't get the gun setup right for the clear. It was spray wayyy too heavy, got some massive runs, clear dripping down onto the floor. The clear seems to spray on really heavy like the high-build primer, just gotta get the setup right next time and I'm sure I can do it. But even with that snafu it was salvaged.


Painted Test Part by mugget, on Flickr

That photo actually makes it look much better than it was in the real. I only cut & polished some sections. Ripped into it all with a 360 wet sand to try and level out the massively oversprayed clear. I wouldn't do that on any actual parts because it's too hard to get the sanding marks out. Well, I'd hope not to overspray anything again, but if I did I would just spend the extra time with 800 or 1000 grit before going to 1500 and 2000.

I did manage one tiny area without any runs or orange peel, and hot damn if it wasn't super-smooth and super-glossy off the gun!! Now I know why everyone gets hyped when they get a job that is good off the gun and doesn't need any polishing!

Next up was to put down the gel coat.


Gel Coat Test by mugget, on Flickr

Added a smidge of black pigment to make it easier to spot air bubbles.

I used a varnish brush for this (low bristle density and uneven edge), I will use a better brush next time so I can get the surface more even with less low spots. Even though it didn't look like it caused any problems due to the gel coat being too thin - better to be safe than sorry.


Test Layup by mugget, on Flickr

Only added a single layer of 450g CSM since it's just a throwaway test piece. Cut up some CSM and put that in the recessed holes, wetting it out with resin. Seems to be a much better way than filling the holes with resin + talc mix, then just glassing over the top.

Annnnd here is what it looked like when I demoulded this arvo:


Test part demoulded by mugget, on Flickr

I think this may have happened for a few reasons. Firstly I didn't polish the entire piece - the areas where the paint lifted weren't polished. So I have a theory that even though it was waxed, the resin had too much mechanical grip there. What do you think?

2nd - The gelcoat went over the edges of the part in some places, so I took a knife and started cutting/chipping it off. When I went to put a paddle pop stick in to separate the part, it's like it just went in straight under the paint (well, between the primer and basecoat).

Then again, I wouldn't have expected the paint to just lift away from the primer like that? Maybe that is why most car guys say to leave 2k paint for 2-3 months before waxing or polishing etc.? So it can reach full cure? I think I'll just bring in a heater to the spray area after I spray the next base & clear, because I can't let this sit around for months, gotta move on!

3rd - the upper left triangle section was coated with PVA release, and came off easy as anything. The other bit that kept most of it's paint was a polished section. So on the actual plugs I will make sure to polish them all as glossy as they will go. Actually I think I will go back and try machine buffing the good paint area, and try another small test. Gotta know for sure if it's going to release okay with just wax or not.

The other thing could be that I took off too much clear when I was trying to block it down, those areas with paint missing were the most overcoated with runs and orange peel on the part. If I do have to sand the plugs down that much, I think I will give it another coat or two of clear so I dont' risk it.

At least I know there was no chemical reaction between the gelcoat and paint. I peeled off some bits of paint and did the rest with a metal scraper and the paint just came off the test mould. Good to know that the gelcoat is pretty tough as well!

That's all for now!

Update: I just got back from my local composites shop, picked up some new mould release wax because I thought the old stuff I had may have been causing problems, and I was nearly out anyway.

Well, turns out that I just haven't been applying the wax 100% correctly. My suspicion was right - that if the plug surface isn't polished smooth it can be harder to release. So that would explain why the section I polished released better than the rest. But the wax should also be buffed to a high gloss - you basically shouldn't see any buildup of flat looking wax, the wax is there, but you should just see your mould/plug surface. Also it was suggested to me that I apply the wax using 4 different cloths. One that you dip into the wax and apply to the part, then the other 3 you use to buff up the wax, rotating to the final cloth which should be staying virtually clean and wax-free. Then when your 1st waxing cloth is too waxy, just rotate them and keep going like that, keeping your final cloth clean for the final buff. 6-8 coats should be good for a new part, but if unsure you can always do a couple more coats. You can't really put too much on, and better to be safe than sorry, because you don't get any 2nd chances.

Now that I know that, I'm confident that I can get a good release and high gloss finish when I make the final moulds. Now I've just gotta start all the paint prep on the plugs that are finished, get this moving right along...

Last edited by mugget; 06-17-2013 at 05:53 PM.
mugget is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mugget For This Useful Post:
Chocflip201 (05-28-2014)
Old 06-25-2013, 11:57 PM   #23
mugget

Composites Expert
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Posts: 226
Thanks: 115
Thanked 30 Times in 27 Posts



Default

Some progress from last week on the headlight unit - the angle of that lip at the bottom was a bit out of whack, so I cut a couple of pieces of flat glass (just made on a sheet of perspex) and readjusted the angle using play doh to hold it:


headlight adjustment by mugget, on Flickr

I got as far as this:


headlight progress by mugget, on Flickr

The play doh will just stay in there, won't matter as it's just a plug.

One of the fork sliders ended up with a bit of a twist in it. When I was making this from the splash mould I used a clamp to hold a tricky bit of glass down, but the clamp was resting on the part and twisted it, so when the resin had set both the part and the mould were warped. Was nearly going to scrap them and forget about fork sliders (just use the old ones, or buy new ones) but I thought this could work:


fork slider straightening by mugget, on Flickr

Sure enough, once the bracing had cured it was all straight again!

I had been meaning to get on with painting the plugs, but I think I was stalling a bit because I was worried about stuffing it up. But what's the worst that could happen? Just take the paint off and spray it again! So I got on with that yesterday, looking pretty good now - this gives a much better sense of the overall shape, easier to look at and pick up any problems than the raw glass with multicoloured body fillers.


Primed Rear Fender by mugget, on Flickr


Primed Front Fender by mugget, on Flickr


Primed Rad Shrouds by mugget, on Flickr

Next up is to give a 800 wet sand, then blade fill any final areas and give them the final couple of coats of primer before going onto basecoat and clear.

Only plugs I'm still working on are the fork sliders, ready to be sprayed in the next session are the rear side panels and the chain guard. Starting to take shape now!
mugget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 06:33 AM   #24
mugget

Composites Expert
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Posts: 226
Thanks: 115
Thanked 30 Times in 27 Posts



Default Plug Painting Time

Okay, a good update today!!

On Sunday I sprayed the base + clear on the first two of the plugs. I only did these two because I wasn't sure if I would be able to do the clear properly (after my first/test attempt where it was dripping onto the floor!) and if I stuffed up these panels they're a fairly easy shape to fix, most simple of the bunch.

When I had finished spraying the clear I knew that I had kind of messed up... I was rushing because it was getting dark (did I mention that you need really good lights for painting?!) and I lifted the air hose over the job instead of walking around... bad move! It dropped some dust on the parts. But like they say "that'll buff out!"

Anyway, here's what it looks like:



I'm very happy with how these turned out, and they would have been damn near perfect if not for the dust. 2k clear is amazing - this stuff is ssooo glossy! For these panels I will just give a light sand then cut & polish to see if I can get rid of that dust. But for all the other plugs I will just go straight to polish if I can get them looking like this.

I have gone with paint for all the plugs because of a couple of reasons. One being cost (I already have more than enough paint for the other parts of the bike that are being painted anyway). I also wanted to paint these for practice before I do the actual frame and swingarm etc. And I need to get my spray technique for clear all sorted because I will be clear coating all the carbon body panels.

But if I was doing a similar job from scartch, I would definitely start off using a polyurethane foam, get it roughly to shape, fill the holes in, then spray Duratec surfacing primer. Prime and polish all in one hit - it sure would save a bunch of time and effort, worth paying extra money for that. Not that 2k paint is exactly cheap if you were buying it just to paint some plugs... although a 2k solid would be cheaper.
mugget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 06:47 AM   #25
jimff1

Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: athens, Greece
Posts: 68
Thanks: 12
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts



Default

clear coating carbon parts it's even easier, you will have to do a couple of light coats so the orange peel you will have will be minimal if not none.

keep up the great work !!!
__________________
http://www.compositeparts.gr
jimff1 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jimff1 For This Useful Post:
mugget (07-16-2013)
Old 08-12-2013, 10:44 PM   #26
BSchmermund

Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Florida US
Posts: 94
Thanks: 8
Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts



Default

Looking great sir. I absolutely love the play dough. Youd fit right in over where im from. Cajun boys use whatever is around to get the job done.
BSchmermund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 01:45 AM   #27
morepower

Composites Expert
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 216
Thanks: 7
Thanked 29 Times in 26 Posts



Default

Looking good.... I love coming back to see progress... I know my first bodywork project looked rough when I started to mock it up and this one was quite simple and looked a lot neater when I started the shaping of it but it still too quite a long time to get right and now I have sprayed it with Durabuild it is almost ready to make a mould from it...

Respect for all the time and effort you are putting into your bike...

My combined hugger and swing arm cover was made from a pair of existing swing arm covers and a cut down world superbike Yamaha R1 rear hugger.. Simple but effective... lol


Polished up a little

Top view.


I have used Durabuild as the last time I used lacquer it stuck and reacted with the gel coat where the release was thinnest...
morepower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 03:05 AM   #28
mugget

Composites Expert
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Posts: 226
Thanks: 115
Thanked 30 Times in 27 Posts



Default

Cheers BSchmermund. There haven't been many updates because I've been sidetracked with other projects... starting a new business and need to fitout a van. Building an aluminium work bench for it, but I can't weld. It's not going to be bolted together either, nor will it use those plastic connectors... testing out some stuff now, but that is another story altogether!

morepower - thanks for the tip on Durabuild. Just looked it up and saw it's a Duratec product, I get confused with all those different product names... When you say the lacquer stuck, was that a 2k paint? 2k shouldn't react like that (maybe mechanically stick if not waxed correctly, etc. but no chemical reaction)?

Looking good on the hugger/swinger cover. How much work to polish up the Durabuild like that?

I still have to finish sanding the primer and paint my other plugs, a bit nervous about making the moulds from them... may just do a couple of 1 layer throwaways with PVA to suss it out.

I would definitely use Duratec/Durabuild if I did this again! I had never painted before, didn't realise how much work there was in it. No problem though, I needed to learn to paint so I can do the frame and other parts on this bike. It's funny how things turn out, this van I just bought needs some touchups as well, gonna do that myself.

If I think about all the stuff I've learnt just because I decided to go all-in on this supermoto build, all the effort is worth it!
mugget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 05:00 AM   #29
morepower

Composites Expert
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 216
Thanks: 7
Thanked 29 Times in 26 Posts



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mugget View Post
Cheers BSchmermund. There haven't been many updates because I've been sidetracked with other projects... starting a new business and need to fitout a van. Building an aluminium work bench for it, but I can't weld. It's not going to be bolted together either, nor will it use those plastic connectors... testing out some stuff now, but that is another story altogether!

morepower - thanks for the tip on Durabuild. Just looked it up and saw it's a Duratec product, I get confused with all those different product names... When you say the lacquer stuck, was that a 2k paint? 2k shouldn't react like that (maybe mechanically stick if not waxed correctly, etc. but no chemical reaction)?

Looking good on the hugger/swinger cover. How much work to polish up the Durabuild like that?

I still have to finish sanding the primer and paint my other plugs, a bit nervous about making the moulds from them... may just do a couple of 1 layer throwaways with PVA to suss it out.

I would definitely use Duratec/Durabuild if I did this again! I had never painted before, didn't realise how much work there was in it. No problem though, I needed to learn to paint so I can do the frame and other parts on this bike. It's funny how things turn out, this van I just bought needs some touchups as well, gonna do that myself.

If I think about all the stuff I've learnt just because I decided to go all-in on this supermoto build, all the effort is worth it!
It was a rattle can....As I pointed out I started out knowing less than nothing...lol... I only know a little more now.... haha.

It took me about 2 hours to polish it up from the dull orange peel finish in the first image. It does sand back easily and will polish up really well... I am sure it will get to an even higher gloss with a little time..

Like you I threw myself in at the deep end and it very quickly got deeper when I realised the guy who I was going to use to make my pre-preg parts was never going to be able to do it and I would have had 7000 worth of moulds just gathering dust! So I had to learn to do that too and I am still not at a level I want to be at but I am just about treading water and it is not getting much deeper at the moment... But I still have a long way to go.... It just started as a trackday bike project for my own fun and enjoyment. It has become a full time job and has taken over from my original business now...
morepower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 04:11 PM   #30
FarbinKaiber

Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 103
Thanks: 8
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by morepower View Post
Like you I threw myself in at the deep end and it very quickly got deeper when I realised the guy who I was going to use to make my pre-preg parts was never going to be able to do it and I would have had 7000 worth of moulds just gathering dust! So I had to learn to do that too and I am still not at a level I want to be at but I am just about treading water and it is not getting much deeper at the moment... But I still have a long way to go.... It just started as a trackday bike project for my own fun and enjoyment. It has become a full time job and has taken over from my original business now...
WOW. This is EXACTLY why I'm here also. I guess that this is a common event to befall people. Up until now, I felt alone with this issue. My previous gig was essentially shuttered so I can repurpose the space to do my production on the molds I invested into under the expectation that the guy I was working with would be doing the repeat manufacturing of my product.
FarbinKaiber is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bodywork, carbon fibre, custom, diy, homemade, motorbike, motorcycle, progress, supermoto, work

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:56 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design